Voyager FAQ - Revision history

Martini: /* What is Voyager? */

2025-08-27T14:31:08Z

What is Voyager?

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	* The [[Voyager]] page in this Wiki and...		* The [[Voyager]] page in this Wiki and...
	* The [http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.netlabs.voyager.devel Voyager mailinglist] at ~~gmane~~.org		* The [https://web.archive.org/web/20150912110805/http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.netlabs.voyager.devel Voyager mailinglist Archive] at Archive.org (gmane is no longer operational)

	Note that our path is firmly set and long past the point of discussion. As a potential contributor, know from the onset, that acceptance of this path is a must. Take it or leave it, it's our choice and we have our reasons.		Note that our path is firmly set and long past the point of discussion. As a potential contributor, know from the onset, that acceptance of this path is a must. Take it or leave it, it's our choice and we have our reasons.

Ktk: /* Where can I download sourcecode? */

2007-12-08T16:59:06Z

Where can I download sourcecode?

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	a web interface for browsing. Currently you find the following.		a web interface for browsing. Currently you find the following.

	* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_doc Documentation].		* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_doc Documentation]. (Seriously out of date because we changed quite a lot from the design point of view, sorry)
	* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_nom Netlabs Object Model].		* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_nom Netlabs Object Model].
	* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_desktop Desktop].		* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_desktop Desktop].

Ktk: /* How is this related to MacOS X? */

2007-12-08T16:58:19Z

How is this related to MacOS X?

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	* The MacOS X Desktop does have a lot in common with the WPS. We're going to limit our talk to some of the ideas and concepts here. The reasons for the similarity are quite simple: Apple, IBM and HP had a company called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent Taligent] in the 90s which worked on an object oriented OS. The project was canceled in 1995, but some of the conceptual ideas survived. Some of these made it into the MacOS X which has also been influenced by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer NeXT] which also has some ideas in common with OS/2s WPS.		* The MacOS X Desktop does have a lot in common with the WPS. We're going to limit our talk to some of the ideas and concepts here. The reasons for the similarity are quite simple: Apple, IBM and HP had a company called [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent Taligent] in the 90s which worked on an object oriented OS. The project was canceled in 1995, but some of the conceptual ideas survived. Some of these made it into the MacOS X which has also been influenced by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer NeXT] which also has some ideas in common with OS/2s WPS.
	* MacOS X provides a powerful 2D engine called [http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/quartzextreme/ Quartz Extreme], we think this is the way to go today and Voyager has planned something like this utilizing [http://www.cairographics.org Cairo] as the 2D engine.		* MacOS X provides a powerful 2D engine called [http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/quartzextreme/ Quartz Extreme], we think this is the way to go today and Voyager has planned something like this utilizing [http://www.cairographics.org Cairo] as the 2D engine.
	Unfortunately Apple didn't push the object orientation far enough in MacOS X. Not everything is an object as with the WPS, thus things that should (in our opinion) simply work, do not. As an example try to drag & drop an '''Address Book''' entry to the trash can. The entry itself is not a normal desktop object and thus can't be dropped to the trashcan. Also Objective C used by Apple does have some nice features but the object model of OS/2 (SOM) is still much further in terms of binary compatibility for example.		Unfortunately Apple didn't push the object orientation far enough in MacOS X. Not everything is an object as with the WPS, thus things that should (in our opinion) simply work, do not. As an example try to drag & drop an ''Address Book'' entry to the trash can. The entry itself is not a normal desktop object and thus can't be dropped to the trashcan. Also Objective C used by Apple does have some nice features but the object model of OS/2 (SOM) is still much further in terms of binary compatibility for example.


	===Is Voyager yet another Linux distribution?===		===Is Voyager yet another Linux distribution?===

Ktk at 16:57, 8 December 2007

2007-12-08T16:57:17Z

Show changes

Ktk: /* Voyager Frequently Asked Questions */

2007-08-30T20:57:46Z

Voyager Frequently Asked Questions

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	* MacOS X: ''Not everything is an object''		* MacOS X: ''Not everything is an object''
	* Gnome: ''We once tried objects''		* Gnome: ''We once tried objects''
	* Windows: ''~~What~~ is an object?''		* KDE: ''We claim there are objects''
			* Windows: ''There is no object''

Ktk: /* Voyager Frequently Asked Questions */

2007-08-30T20:37:06Z

Voyager Frequently Asked Questions

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	* Cinc		* Cinc

	~~Intro~~:~~<br/>~~		'''Motivation'''
	''~~"I know that you~~'~~re afraid. You~~'~~re afraid of us. You~~'~~re afraid of change. I don~~'~~t know the future. I didn~~'~~t come here to tell you how this~~ is ~~going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin."~~''		* OS/2: ''Everything is an object [tm]''
			* MacOS X: ''Not everything is an object''
			* Gnome: ''We once tried objects''
			* Windows: ''What is an object?''


	~~([http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Matrix Source] :)~~
	==General==		==General==
	===What is Voyager?===		===What is Voyager?===
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	* we would like to present some first prototypes of various components at Developer Workshop 2006 in Biel/Bienne. Those components are more or less technology studies for interested developers.		* we would like to present some first prototypes of various components at Developer Workshop 2006 in Biel/Bienne. Those components are more or less technology studies for interested developers.
	* till Warpstock Europe 2006 we hope to present a basic development setup which makes it easy for other developers to join the project on various platforms. This means you should be able to contribute on OS/2 & eCS, Linux, BSD and probably even MacOS X.		* till Warpstock Europe 2006 we hope to present a basic development setup which makes it easy for other developers to join the project on various platforms. This means you should be able to contribute on OS/2 & eCS, Linux, BSD and probably even MacOS X.

	~~''"Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you."''~~

Ktk: /* Why not X? */

2007-08-10T14:33:37Z

Why not X?

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	===Why not X?===		===Why not X?===
			====Short answer====
	Voyager is a desktop OS. We don't see any need for opening a window on a machine located somewhere in China when your monitor is only 50cm away from you.		Voyager is a desktop OS. We don't see any need for opening a window on a machine located somewhere in China when your monitor is only 50cm away from you.

	And, we don't like X. Period.		And, we don't like X. Period.

	~~(Note:~~ We talk about X in terms of Xlib here, we are ~~currently trying~~ to ~~understand~~ the ~~display driver~~ concept of ~~XFree86~~/~~Xorg because we would~~ like to ~~be able~~ to ~~use~~ the ~~OpenGL drivers~~ of it).		====Long answer====
			We talk about X in terms of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xlib Xlib] here, a library which was designed about 20 years ago when networks were slow, terminals common and processors did all the GFX (rendering) work. Now we have fast networks, fast computers, some graphic cards cost more than the CPU and remote access can be done with modern protocols like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol RDP] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_technology NX].

			Since Apple started introducing eye candies in MacOS X everyone wants fancy 3D effects on his desktop too, no matter how useless they actually are. So one needs to get direct access to the hardware in X too, a concept that got introduced in form of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Infrastructure Direct Rendering Interface (DRI)] mainly for 3D games. New desktop extensions like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xgl Xgl] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiglx Aiglx] are using such techniques as well to get direct access to the hardware, without messing around with Xlib.

			The two most popular toolkits GTK and Qt started moving their rendering to new engines as well like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_%28graphics%29 Cairo] or [http://doc.trolltech.com/4.0/qt4-arthur.html Arthur]. Depending on the backend of those rendering engines they also bypass Xlib and thus don't need it anymore except for things like window and input handling. Our point of view is that it would make more sense to replace those parts (window & input handling and other missing stuff) by a window manager on top of those rendering engines like Cairo instead. There was a prototype of this idea presented at Developers Workshop 2006, the project is called [ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/events/DWS2006/presentations/AWMBasedOnCairo-dws06.pdf Neptune].

			There are people working on alternatives for Xlib as we know it right now. One of them is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCB XCB], a project at freedesktop.org. This project can solve some of the problems we have with Xlib nowadays but it doesn't kill it completely.

	===This project is too big, you will fail===		===This project is too big, you will fail===

Cinc: /* This project is too big, you will fail */

2007-03-12T06:30:53Z

This project is too big, you will fail

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	===This project is too big, you will fail===		===This project is too big, you will fail===

	Maybe. But honestly without trying you ~~wont~~ know...		Maybe. But honestly without trying you won't know...

	==Development==		==Development==

Cinc: Added links to subversion.

2007-03-12T06:28:24Z

Added links to subversion.

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	===Where can I download sourcecode?===		===Where can I download sourcecode?===
	~~Once the license is defined there will~~ be a subversion tree on netlabs.		The source can be found in a subversion tree on netlabs.org. Trac provides
			a web interface for browsing. Currently you find the following.

			* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_doc Documentation].
			* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_nom Netlabs Object Model].
			* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_desktop Desktop].
			* [http://svn.netlabs.org/v_triton Multimedia subsystem].

			Information how to download the source will follow.

	===Should I still work on OS/2 and eCS applications?===		===Should I still work on OS/2 and eCS applications?===

Cinc: Added current license information

2007-03-12T06:19:43Z

Added current license information

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:19, 12 March 2007
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	==Development==		==Development==
	===Under what license ~~will~~ Voyager be released?===		===Under what license is Voyager released?===
	The ~~license will be liberal so using Voyager will not be restricted. On the other hand it will assure that Voyager remains open~~ source. It ~~will not be GPL~~.		The source is dual licensed. It is covered by the CDDL and the LGPL.

	===Where can I download sourcecode?===		===Where can I download sourcecode?===